Crimson Renaissance

Let us talk about this interesting topic, and see how far can we go.

Personally, I would like to remain neutral, as I have stated before that I'm Christian. However, I will participate.

Are you interested? If so, please let us know your opinion.

I'm interested. :) Personally, I think the topic of reincarnation is vague, and since I'm also Christian, I'm neutral.  .. There are also different types of reincarnation as present in several religions, if I am not mistaken. There's no way to prove it, though, in the same way that there is no way to prove the existence of a supreme god. It's all about faith. o_O

So, I think the word "prove" is overrated ;D. Really.

It seems like there are two extreme points of view: the one of those who stress the importance of a poof of validity of "something" to believe in it, and the one of those who think that if no one has proved that this "something" is right or wrong then it's not possible or important, and they just think this way and believe in it.

What are we capable of prove or disprove?
I believe this is a very interesting and important question to keep in mind when dealing with all the drama around the proof requesting manias, and other surrounding topics.
Also:
Why and when we need to prove something?

You know, reincarnation is a word that has its meaning, but its semantical meaning depends in some extent of the social consensus about it. The real meaning of every word depends in ultimate term of the person who is thinking in it. So, if it has a clear meaning for you, a meaning that reflects your reality, then it isn't even necessary to want to prove it. But, if you want to talk about the obscure, bizarre and disfigured meaning that some people think it means in connection with the global reality, and defend based in their short and immature opinions about it, you will have an extremely hard time, starting with the fact that there will not be almost no understanding like when you speak Russian and try to communicate with one talking Italian (a LOT harder than that). That's how a petrified and immature opinion shrinks the mind and impairs communication.

blah blah blah.........

Interesting topic.... but it did get a bit out of hand at the chapel, and I know some people were hurt, so we just have to be careful.

As for reincarnation: I believe people get a chance to "live again", but I don't think there's any sort of "soul" that gets carried from one "life" to the "next". I think when we are "here" we just control a body through the motions of "life" and after we "die", "we" simply get control over another "body" when it is "born". So, really, if this is "true" then we have no reason to fear "death" because there's no "afterlife", just another "life" which has no connection to what we'd therefore consider "past lives" and then the cycle simply repeats. Confusing enough for you?

I sorta understand what you mean. So I guess that means you believe in human-exclusive reincarnation? :) I know in some cultures they believe one can get reincarnated into animals such as a..dog..or a worm. o_O Anyway, there's gotta be an end of the world sometime, what happens to the cycle then, I wonder? :)

No, I don't mean human exclusive. I think "you" can be "reborn" as a member of any species that exists on any planet in any area of any bit of this existence. Of course, I'm not even sure if I believe in my own existence... the thing that boggles my mind the most is outer space. Ok, our planet is part of a solar system, which is in a galaxy, and then that just gets bigger and bigger, space goes on and on and ON!!! But what is the ultimate level of bigness you can get to? What if none of anything that exists actually existed? Then what is left to go on? Nothing! Not planets, no people no anything! What it be? endless darkness? But if there was nothing, then even this darkness wouldn't exist! I guess the only way to know is to die.... then what?

I'll stick to Heaven, thank you ;) And, since I'm Lutheran (I'm not being to general, am I...?) I don't even consider Hell :P I'll be going to the angels and stuff :D...Eh, I'll just live my life and accept whatever comes at the time. If it means I won't find out at all, due to immediate departure to another body, then that's fine by me.

And CVF, I don't think I've EVER seen so many "s in one paragraph :o

So Lutherans believe only in heaven?  ;D That sure sounds nice.. For us (officially) we believe in both heaven and hell. Personally, I like to think (though I doubt it) that purgatory exists.

It's amazing how people try to figure out what they don't know.. I guess human minds just aren't suited to understand the big (REALLY big) picture.

Human minds are always wondering. Impossible to stop that, really.

Well, we believe that Jesus died for our sins, but not only the ones we had committed but also the ones we are committing now, so we won't go to Hell. Well, the words after the last comma are kinda speculation, but many believe it to be so. But the second and third parts (the first, "Well", is a bit general...) are what make Lutherans different from Catholics (I think, don't take my word for it, though), so we usually don't have confessions and such, and even when we do, it's mostly just for getting it out of our chests, to someone we can trust, not necessarily for getting forgiveness from "the holy ones". And that's really why I like it, it offers a more gentle interpretation of Jesus' words, and a more gentle view on things overall :) That's not to say that Catholics are wrong, though...wow, this'd get me so many warnings at the Chapel :P

True, but here, you get my utmost praise.  ;)

Sorry, just my speculation. Hey, about reincarnation, does anyone else think it's possible, in the event that reincarnation is true, it would be possible to be reincarnated as someone from far into the past that has already died? Or perhaps someone from the future? Or from a different planet? Basically, the space-time continuum has no control over it?

I dunno. I always thought reincarnation followed the normal timeline. ;D That's just pure speculation, though (as well as everything else in this thread)..

I have to say my personal beliefs lean more towards your end of Christianity. ;D I may be officially Catholic, but I don't believe everything that comes with it.. I was baptized as a baby. For example, the last time I went to confession was about two years ago, and that was because it was required for school (I used to study in a Catholic school. Exclusive for girls. >.< Thank goodness I went somewhere else when I got to college); in fact, all the times I have confessed are seemingly because people required it of me (school, family) and not because I actually went there to confess. That's also not to say Catholic beliefs are wrong, there are just some little things I don't conform with.. I dunno. Religion should be both communal and personal. The core of most religions is to do good and avoid evil, anyway. ;D Trust in God. There are plenty of things that differ, but those things are usually the same. Of course there are some exceptions, such as ancient Greek religion (mythology?) where they have a different concept of good, and also Satanism or something, if that's even a religion. -_-;;

On the topic of reincarnation though, pretty much every religion has a stand on it. Thing is, we have no way of knowing.

Also, CVfan13, if I may ask, why do you seem so vehement towards religion?  ;D

*AHEM*


 >:(

Because I find it completely silly to devote yourself to something that we have no idea or anyway to prove that these things are real. It's impossible to prove if God is real, but it's possible to prove that the bible is wrong. It states that "God" created the world several million years after the actual proven beginning of Earth, for example. My only guess of how religion even came to exist is that some "alien species" had some sort of "interaction" with ancient humans and they believed that they were some sort of "god-like" figures. Either that, or the bible was just the creation of some over-imaginative fool's mind.


Oooooohhh..... I is sorry, TS.

Methinks you should do your research, my friend. There are many theories as to why the Bible and science do not agree in terms of the creation story, but both theories can be true. The Bible is a full of symbolic things, just because it said God created the world in seven days doesn't mean that it's literally what happened. For one thing, the definition of "seven days" is hazy, because it's GOD we're talking about, He won't have a sense of time the way we do. The way we see it, the Theory of Evolution (possibly the Big Bang theory, too) can very well be true, but that doesn't mean it's not part of God's orchestrated plan.

As for religion's origins, well, many people NEED religion. Nowadays, not as much, but back then, it was important. When bad things start happening that one can't control, people want to believe in a superior being that would help them. That doesn't mean what they believe is real (or otherwise), but they want to believe. It's hard to go through suffering in life without someone to cling to. There are also many theories as to why religion exists. ..In fact, I read somewhere (I don't remember where, or who said it) that even if God may not exist, people would make a god for themselves. They need it. It's a psychological thing.

Also, that's the point of faith in a religious sense. It's to believe in something that can't be proven, but you just know it's there. You feel it. [Of course, I'm guessing this sounds ridiculous from your point of view, but it's just the way things are.  ;) ]

As for the Bible.. Well, I'm guessing it's many many "over-imaginative fools".  ;D It's a literary masterpiece, if nothing else. It's a good read, even if you don't believe in it.

Religion becomes bad only when those who have power abuse it. Like the Catholic church during the medieval ages. [Or Spanish colonialism back then... Bad things happened.] Also when those who believe try to force it down other people's throats.

We are impelled to have an opinion for everything, even things that we don't know at all, being ourselves aware or not.

We often talk about religion. But, what is religion?
We try to talk about reincarnation, and our minds barely handle the concept of "be". We don't even understand our current state of living.

That is very true. :) We won't be able to comprehend it, but we keep wanting to.

Yeah, we have a strange desire for understanding. I remember thinking that when my brother was playing Twilight Princess, and he really wanted to go into Hyrule Castle, only because it was closed inside a barrier. Man, what a disappointing level...

Also, I just realised that I seem to have talked about Zelda in a topic revolving around an aspect closely related to religion. I'm not even sure if aspect is a good word in that, ummmm....situation...? My vocabulary seems to be slightly crippled at the moment...

Our desires drag us away from impartiality

Yes, yes, our partial... desires... ride dragsters... away from... oo, dear, that's a toughie.

I don't get it. o_o;;

I don't get it either... mighty Mercurius, explain to us your awesome wisdom!!!

No..no.. I have a vague idea of what Mercurius said.. I didn't get what you said CVfan13. X_X

That makes two of us.  ;D

:D
to give it more words it's like pouring water in you capuccino :P

It's like...
It you are hungry, and you see some (otherwise average tasting) food, you qualify it based on you circumstances (being hungry), and it's often very different of the one you assign it when you have already eaten a lot of food.
When I'm in the supermarket, and I have already eaten a lot I see all the stuff with a pretty "different eyes" than when I am hungry.

There's something that is always manipulating how we see things. We can consider that someone is attacking us with his words (often a reflection of self insecurity, being afraid of loosing one's stability and integrity), or we can just hear a mere opinion. It's like our view of the world is colored by that internal "status", and effectively this becomes a reflection of our inner self in the outer mundane things.

In a great extent, that's why you can learn a lot about yourself by the way you react to people, and by the way you like or dislike people. That's why you can learn a lot of yourself by means of observing who are your friends, and the reason you can prudently learn about someone by observing his friends.

Although this is only a couple of things that I'm extracting from my sentence.

Maybe in some way reality embodies the so called "mirror of truth", that reflects your inner self.

Mercurius, you should become one of those elderly Asian men who live in the mountains and give advice, and tea, to weary travelers. You'd be very good at that.

Mercurius is very wise, but I don't think he'd fit as an Asian hermit. o.o I think he'd fit better as one of those alchemists(?)/wise people that people seek for his wisdom somewhere in Europe.

He's just reminding me of Confucius is all (even though Confucius wasn't a hermit.  :P)

( insert presumptuous words here :P )

Now that I read my own post, I think it sounds very pretentious. I don't like it.

That's a good thing.... you should realize your faults...

Yeah, now I hate it even more. However, I won't delete it.

...but I modified it !! ;D ;D ;D

Now my mind has some peace ! :P ;D

 ::)

You call that proper modification?

lol?  ;D Ahh..well.